Posts by Juan Viejo2

30

I have a date!

by Soldier77 in

...and she isn't a witness!!

woohooo!.

the story:.

Juan Viejo2

Remember when mothers would always tell their daughters (before a date) to be sure and "wear clean underwear in case you're in an accident"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVHXkqW8qKk&feature=related

14

The 3 Stark Choices of Individual Witnesses

by metatron in

jw
friends

there's been a lot of comment on this site about witnesses becoming more blind and fanatical and eagerly willing to believe anything the glorious masters of time and space, grand poobah, bright as a labrador retriever, governing frauds tell them.. but it really comes down to 3 stark choices.

the more reality intrudes on the lives of individual witnesses, the more they will be driven into some combination of these catagories:.

1) dumber - the most popular choice.

Juan Viejo2

I offer one more sub-category of Jehovah's Witnesses, a very small group, but far more influential than their numbers would indicate.

4) Rich and famous rock and roll, movie actor, sports star who profess to be Jehovah's Witnesses. As long as these folks pour money into the Watchtower coffers, the rules and guidelines set down for the common JW folks are waived for these people. While many of the rich and famous maintain relatively low profiles when it involves their private lives, most of these folks do not go out and loudly profess their connections to the JWs (George Benson, Dave Meyers, among others). On the other hand, others are in your face, self-important, spoiled, over-the-top and often ignorant of the fine points of being a JW. Many of these folks make even their fans wince at times, but the WT rarely says or does anything to condemn them (Prince, Serena Williams). In fact, the WT often publicly professes ignorance as to their membership status, while accepting huge monetary contributions from them.

I choose not to judge these people for their own lifestyles or ability to earn huge sums of money in the entertainment industry - good for them. I judge the Watchtower for being hypocritical about how they treat these people vs. the Joe Average publisher who makes $40,000 a year and works at some mundane clerical job.

All you have to do is look at the waivers and special treatment that Michael Jackson's mother seems to get in spite of the fact that most of her kids are DA'd or DF'd. I think she is a good person and a decent grandmother - but she gets so many waivers from the JWs for practices that would get anyone else called on the carpet.

127

Disrespect of the Bible

by brotherdan in

jw
friends

i am going to get a lot of flack for this post, but i need to do it.

i want to preface this by saying that i don't judge any of you and i believe in the right of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, including your freedom to not practice one.. however, i'm finding a trend among some ex jws here.

notice the word "some".

Juan Viejo2

One Sunday morning back in the late 1950s, I was out in field service in an upscale neighborhood of Riverside, California. I had my clamshell bookbag filled to the brim with magazines and a couple of recent books. I also had my personal leatherette covered copy of the NWT along with a hardcover copy to place.

I went to the front door of this very fancy home. A man in his late 40s answered the door and politely listened to my usual opening spiel and then invited me in. "How old are you, young man?" he asked.

"I'm fourteen."

He looked at my leatherette covered NWT. "That's a nice Bible you have there. Have you ever read it from cover to cover?"

"Not completely, but most of it, I guess."

He asked me if I'd ever read the King James Version. I replied that I had, and pulled out my small leather covered copy that was buried deep down in my bookbag. He then asked me if I could understand the language of the KJV. I told him that I could, but reading the NWT was much easier.

He then invited me over to a bookcase that was filled with pricey legal books and premium bound versions of the classics. On the top shelf was a copy of what appeared to be a large family Bible, with rich leather, gilded edges and a very impressive ribbon bookmark. Next to it was a beautifully bound copy of "The Complete Works of Shakespeare." He then asked me if I'd ever read Shakespeare.

"No. Not really. But I've seen the movies of Hamlet, MacBeth, and Richard III."

"Here, I want to trade with you. You give me that copy of your New World Translation - and I'll give you this copy of Shakespeare. One condition: You must swear to me that you will read this book as faithfully as you read your Bible. I guarantee that you will learn far more about life and history from this book than you ever will reading the Bible."

Clearly the book he was giving me was worth at least $50 to $100. Mine was worth maybe $5 - if it was brand new, which it was not. "That would be very nice of you sir," I said, "but not fair - as your book is so much nicer than mine."

"I'm an attorney and do very well financially. I can certainly afford to replace this book any time I want. I like you very much and you seem to be an intelligent young man. Do me the honor of accepting my book. I'll know that if you read it and learn from it - that I will have given you something priceless."

I promised that I would read his book of Shakespeare and cherish it. We made the swap, shook hands, and I was on my way.

I kept that book for over 30 years and it was always within reach, usually on my bedside table. He was absolutely right - I did learn far more from that book of Shakespeare than I ever did from reading the Bible. Whenever a Shakespeare movie would come on the TV, I would follow the dialogue in my book as the actors spoke their lines. I was heartbroken when my ex-wife gave it to the Goodwill along with most of my other possesions.

Reading the NWT is like reading high school or community college level poetry compared to the KJV. While the language of the KJV is beautiful, the sonnets and plays of Shakespeare ring with truth and clarity - exposing human conflict, expressing love, desire, and courage - far better than the Bible does. Only Psalms, Proverbs and Song of Solomon compare favorably to Shakespeare.

The difference in the two books is that the Bible presents fictional stories and legends as "truth" - while Shakespeare presents characters and events based on actual history as "fictional."

That attorney I met that Sunday morning over 50 years ago was right. I did learn more from Shakespeare...

I don't feel that the Bible deserves any more respect than any other book - and certainly not to the honored level it is accorded, even by unbelievers, in the USA and Europe.

6

Everyone here should see this video

by Juan Viejo2 in

i'm sure that many of you here are familiar with ted.org.

if you're not, you should check it out.

there is a wealth of information on every kind of subject located there.. i stumbled across this short (6 minute) talk by a former moonie turned deprogrammer.

Juan Viejo2

Good one, Sweeney!

40

If you were in the Governing Body, how would YOU change the generation prophecy?

by sabastious in

i personally would lose the overlapping terminology and just say that the generation refers to the entire jehovah's witness movement.

jesus is basically saying that the movement would not be gone when end comes to fruition.

this will give us hope during the great tribulation because there will be times when our extermination seems imminent.. what about you?.

Juan Viejo2

Admit that Rutherford pulled a scam when he took control of the WT Society and published a bogus Volume 7 of Studies of the Scriptures. Admit that Fred Franz was the ghost writer for most of Rutherfords books and those published between 1942 and 1970 - and that he was not a "Rhodes Scholar." Admit that the blood-transfusion doctrine was started by Clayton Woodward, fine-tuned by Franz, and then used by Rutherford to "set the Witnesses apart from all other religions" and to create controversy.

Tell everyone that Russell had it right. Start reprinting the oldest Russell Watchtowers. Contact the Millenial Dawn, Russellites, and Bible Student groups and propose a merger. Clean the slate so that everything looks and works like it did during Russells best years.

Then they could update all of his old books and sell them all over again. After all, they are all public domain, even the ones that the WT did not print for one reason or the other.

Here's the kicker! Update "Photodrama of Creation." Do it in widescreen 3-D! Have an actor like Ian McClellan, Anthony Hopkins, or maybe even Russell Crowe - play the part of old C.T. himself. Have professionals like Will Lyman (Frontline) or Liev Schreiber (HBO Documentaries) narrate the voice over.

Most importantly, return to Russell's concept of local groups of active Bible Students, using their time together to actually study the Bible, not go to Kingdom Halls and sit through the rereading of boring magazine articles.

Just wipe the slate clean and start over from where the WT was 100 years ago. Then do it right and be honest about how the truth of the Bible is discovered.

51

Ex-Elders please advice on my first Public Talk as a MS.

by african GB Member in

the topic is- "young people: serve jehovah wholeheartedly".. i'd appreciate various points that would make this talk appealing to my cong.

youths, but please keep it within jw boundaries because i don't want to give my elders any hint of me being an apostate yet.. i have to say that i am still enjoying my newly given "priviledges'', and am still so surprised that holy spirit has'nt pointed me out yet.. agbm.

.

Juan Viejo2

Three points:

1. Does anyone here remember when the "public talk" was an hour long (actually 55 minutes) and was designed for the public?

2. AGBM, just go up and give it your best. No one will care if you make a mistake - because no one cares and no one is really listening to what you are saying.

and,

3. All public talks are basically the same public talk which is the same as the funeral talk, etc. First few paragraphs restate the title and the proposed theme of the talk. Then,

God created everything.

Adam and Eve sinned.

Jesus died as a ransom.

God set up his earthly organization (now the WT).

We live in the end times.

Armageddon will come and burn the bad.

New Heavens and New Earth...

The End.

6

Everyone here should see this video

by Juan Viejo2 in

i'm sure that many of you here are familiar with ted.org.

if you're not, you should check it out.

there is a wealth of information on every kind of subject located there.. i stumbled across this short (6 minute) talk by a former moonie turned deprogrammer.

Juan Viejo2

I'm sure that many of you here are familiar with TED.org. If you're not, you should check it out. There is a wealth of information on every kind of subject located there.

I stumbled across this short (6 minute) talk by a former Moonie turned deprogrammer. Like many of us here on this forum, she has seen both sides of a cult. Like she says in her talk, she "gets it."

You could substitute Reverend Moon for WT Governing Body and the story would be exactly the same.

http://www.ted.com/talks/ex_moonie_diane_benscoter_how_cults_think.html

1

Assembly Halls

by Juan Viejo2 in

can i get some updated info about the assembly halls owned or leased by the jws?.

is this just a usa practice, or are they doing this everywhere now?.

who owns the halls?

Juan Viejo2

Can I get some updated info about the Assembly Halls owned or leased by the JWs?

Is this just a USA practice, or are they doing this everywhere now?

Who owns the halls? The local Circuit or District - or WT HQ? Who actually holds the titles?

Who pays for the utilities and general upkeep?

Are they used for anything else besides Circuit Assemblies? How many Circuits might share a AH, or does each one have a Hall of their own?

Do they ever get rented out to other non-Witness groups for special occasions?

What are they used for during the off-seasons when there are no assemblies scheduled?

Have the JWs abandoned the use of public facilities (convention halls, community auditoriums, local ball parks) everywhere?

Are all of these halls exempt from property taxes?

I noticed that a couple in Southern California are in Industrial Parks? Where does everyone park?

I also read that some of them have apartments that can be used by Circuit, District or traveling Overseers? Do they all have that arrangement? Is this how they provide housing for a CO and DO now?

If there are apartments, and the building is in an area zoned for commercial or industrial use, how do they get around local housing restrictions (mixing residential with commercial)?

The first real Assembly Hall I was aware of was in Los Angeles, CA back in the mid-1970s. They bought up the old Leimert Theatre across from Leimert Park in the Crenshaw District. Was a questionable neighborhood, with a lot of muggings, break-ins and car theft. Does anyone know if that building still owned by the JWs?

82

Instrucitons for using the toilet at the convention (pic)

by maninthemiddle in

jw
friends

this was posted in the men's room stall, i hear the instructions in the womens room was more detailed.. this was in addition to having a "bathroom attendant" handing out 1 paper towel per person.. i haven't felt so childish since i was in grade schooll, i had to wonder if all the tall people around me were really grown men and women.. .

Juan Viejo2

Lines for the ladies room were so long at a concert in Irvine, CA in 1996 the they had to takeover a couple of the men's rooms to help out. As the concert was about to start again after the break, I walked into one of the more remote men's rooms to relieve myself. A gal about 30 had dropped her jeans and actually backed up to one of the off the floor urinals. Yep, everyone of the toilets was taken - by women. Surprisingly, the guys that were in there just did their thing and basically ignored her.

When she was done, she asked one of the fellows to grab her a paper towel. About ten guys all went for the dispenser at the same time. Finally, she pulled up her jeans, gave them a little twist, turned around and backed away as the autoflush went off.

Actually it was no big deal. She didn't show anything, no one saw anything, and she never spilled a drop on the floor. She clearly was never in danger and not one of the fellows made a remark or said anything off-color. She wasn't drunk. There were security guards right outside the door and they never said a thing about the guys and gals using the same bathroom. The whole episode was pretty much a non-event.

12

WOW! Complete magazines in PDF!

by Titus in

.

from july!.

http://www.jw.org/index.xjp?option=qryqcsvrgznt.

Juan Viejo2

There may be one or both of the following outcomes:

1. Now that PDF versions of their books and magazines are online and can be downloaded, we'll all have copies to share for years to come. They are giving us the documentation that we need to bring their house down.

And / Or

2. They hope that by making their literature widely available, that more people (including us apostates) will read "the truths" they publish and will be converted or reconstituted back into the JW organization.

My money is that #1 will happen before #2...

In any case, it would be a lot cheaper for them to just publish online and then short runs of hard copies for local congregation libraries, annual compilations, and special handouts. They can do that easily enough with Print On Demand - which I understand is already in place and available on the printing machines they have in upstate New York.